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The when-gain theme was always the focus of the set. A few of the cards are when-buy instead; this was necessary, as I will explain for those cards. I have a few cards that latch onto when-gain from different angles, rather than just doing something when you gain them. And then, when-gain abilities are good fits for [[victory]] cards and [[treasure]] cards, so the set got three of each. Some of the victory cards died and were replaced by other ones without when-gain abilities, but there are three, see for yourself. With three victory cards and three treasures it seemed cool to have three [[reaction]]s, and towards the end I managed to squeeze in a third one.
 
The when-gain theme was always the focus of the set. A few of the cards are when-buy instead; this was necessary, as I will explain for those cards. I have a few cards that latch onto when-gain from different angles, rather than just doing something when you gain them. And then, when-gain abilities are good fits for [[victory]] cards and [[treasure]] cards, so the set got three of each. Some of the victory cards died and were replaced by other ones without when-gain abilities, but there are three, see for yourself. With three victory cards and three treasures it seemed cool to have three [[reaction]]s, and towards the end I managed to squeeze in a third one.
  
−
Some of you who are word people or have internet access may note that one meaning of "hinterlands" is, the land behind the coast. So even the flavor is a complement to {{Set|Seaside}}.
+
Some of you who are word people or have internet access may note that one meaning of "hinterlands" is, the land behind the coast. So even the flavor is a complement to {{Card|Seaside}}.
  
 
Endless outtakes:
 
Endless outtakes:
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- Long ago, the set had a one-shot that let you buy a card and set it aside until the end of the game. That card was weak, but I stole it for {{Card|Island}} in Seaside and fixed it up. Later I tried to revisit the concept here. First I tried some {{Card|Woodcutter}}s that let you buy cards other than to your deck, either while in play or as a reaction. Those were crazy. Then there were three versions of a victory card with a when-gain that left bad cards in your discard pile - one shuffled all non-victory cards from your discard pile into your deck, one shuffled all but 5 cards from your discard pile into your deck, one shuffled actions and treasures from your discard pile into your deck. It always took too many words and it was never clear that it was interesting enough. So none of those made it, but I saved part of the concept as the when-gain on {{Card|Inn}}.
 
- Long ago, the set had a one-shot that let you buy a card and set it aside until the end of the game. That card was weak, but I stole it for {{Card|Island}} in Seaside and fixed it up. Later I tried to revisit the concept here. First I tried some {{Card|Woodcutter}}s that let you buy cards other than to your deck, either while in play or as a reaction. Those were crazy. Then there were three versions of a victory card with a when-gain that left bad cards in your discard pile - one shuffled all non-victory cards from your discard pile into your deck, one shuffled all but 5 cards from your discard pile into your deck, one shuffled actions and treasures from your discard pile into your deck. It always took too many words and it was never clear that it was interesting enough. So none of those made it, but I saved part of the concept as the when-gain on {{Card|Inn}}.
  
−
- There was a victory card for {{Cost|6}}, worth 1{{VP}}, that came with a {{Card|Duchy}}. It had started as a 2{{VP}} card you got two of, but that pile runs out twice as fast, which I preferred it not doing. This card was cute but space was limited, and it stopped seeming as necessary when {{Card|Border Village}} switched to costing {{Cost|6}}.
+
- There was a victory card for $6, worth 1 VP, that came with a {{Card|Duchy}}. It had started as a 2 VP card you got two of, but that pile runs out twice as fast, which I preferred it not doing. This card was cute but space was limited, and it stopped seeming as necessary when {{Card|Border Village}} switched to costing $6.
  
−
- Another old victory card was 2{{VP}} for {{Cost|5}} and came with a {{Card|Silver}}. On some early pass it didn't seem good enough and exciting new cards were trying to get in.
+
- Another old victory card was 2 VP for $5 and came with a {{Card|Silver}}. On some early pass it didn't seem good enough and exciting new cards were trying to get in.
  
−
- To go along with the victory cards, there was a card that let you discard victory cards for {{Cost|2}} each. It just wasn't interesting enough.
+
- To go along with the victory cards, there was a card that let you discard victory cards for $2 each. It just wasn't interesting enough.
  
−
- There were a bunch of cards that tried to be when-gain card-trashing attacks. The oldest one trashed your choice of each player's top 2 cards (including your own), both when played and when gained. From back when trashing attacks were crazy. Most of the other versions trashed your choice of the top 3, but at least limited you to cards costing {{Cost|6}} or less, and only did it once. One version was a one-shot, which was Bill Barksdale's idea - it was a one-shot with a when-gain, so it wasn't normally in your deck; really it was just, you could use your buy to make this attack happen. That seemed cute but well like many versions of the card, it made the game have a sub-phase in which we bought out the stack, before getting to play the real game. There was a version that was a treasure worth {{Cost|2}} that only attacked when you bought it. I especially liked that one, though of course it had the sub-phase problem, and could shut someone out of the game. There was also a version that whiffed if the top card of their deck was {{Card|Copper}}, but attacked repeatedly.
+
- There were a bunch of cards that tried to be when-gain card-trashing attacks. The oldest one trashed your choice of each player's top 2 cards (including your own), both when played and when gained. From back when trashing attacks were crazy. Most of the other versions trashed your choice of the top 3, but at least limited you to cards costing $6 or less, and only did it once. One version was a one-shot, which was Bill Barksdale's idea - it was a one-shot with a when-gain, so it wasn't normally in your deck; really it was just, you could use your buy to make this attack happen. That seemed cute but well like many versions of the card, it made the game have a sub-phase in which we bought out the stack, before getting to play the real game. There was a version that was a treasure worth $2 that only attacked when you bought it. I especially liked that one, though of course it had the sub-phase problem, and could shut someone out of the game. There was also a version that whiffed if the top card of their deck was {{Card|Copper}}, but attacked repeatedly.
  
−
- Similarly there were several versions of a when-gain discard-based attack card. The longest-lasting one was a {{Card|Woodcutter}} for {{Cost|5}} that made the other players (with 5+ cards in hand) put a random card from their hand on their deck when you bought it or played it. It's amazing how long that card was around, given how painful it made games. There was an earlier version that made players discard their most expensive card, or most expensive non-vp card. Then when I killed the concept, I tried a {{Card|Militia}} with a when-gain that {{Card|Militia}}'d your own next hand when you gained it - look at your top 5, discard 2, put the rest back. That seemed cute conceptually but I liked {{Card|Margrave}} better and that's what you got here. I also tried an attack that gave the other players a choice between being {{Card|Militia}}'d or {{Card|Ghost Ship}}'d, which is pretty weak.
+
- Similarly there were several versions of a when-gain discard-based attack card. The longest-lasting one was a {{Card|Woodcutter}} for $5 that made the other players (with 5+ cards in hand) put a random card from their hand on their deck when you bought it or played it. It's amazing how long that card was around, given how painful it made games. There was an earlier version that made players discard their most expensive card, or most expensive non-vp card. Then when I killed the concept, I tried a {{Card|Militia}} with a when-gain that {{Card|Militia}}'d your own next hand when you gained it - look at your top 5, discard 2, put the rest back. That seemed cute conceptually but I liked {{Card|Margrave}} better and that's what you got here. I also tried an attack that gave the other players a choice between being {{Card|Militia}}'d or {{Card|Ghost Ship}}'d, which is pretty weak.
  
−
- There was an attack that was +{{Cost|2}}, each other player puts 2 {{Card|Copper}}s from his discard pile on top of his deck. For {{Cost|3}}. It basically sucked but occasionally really annoyed someone. An earlier version put a victory card from their discard pile on their deck; {{Card|Fortune Teller}} is a better take on that.
+
- There was an attack that was +$2, each other player puts 2 {{Card|Copper}}s from his discard pile on top of his deck. For $3. It basically sucked but occasionally really annoyed someone. An earlier version put a victory card from their discard pile on their deck; {{Card|Fortune Teller}} is a better take on that.
  
−
- There were a couple versions of a {{Card|Remodel}} that had you discard a card rather than trash a card. Discarding {{Card|Province}} to gain {{Card|Province}} is crazy, so it was either "costing exactly {{Cost|2}} more" or "a different card."
+
- There were a couple versions of a {{Card|Remodel}} that had you discard a card rather than trash a card. Discarding {{Card|Province}} to gain {{Card|Province}} is crazy, so it was either "costing exactly $2 more" or "a different card."
  
 
- Then I tried a {{Card|Remodel}} that had you draw two cards first. It's a simple card but seemed worth trying. The extra cards give you more of a chance for {{Card|Remodel}} to hit what you want, you know. Anyway +2 Cards is a huge bonus to add to {{Card|Remodel}}.
 
- Then I tried a {{Card|Remodel}} that had you draw two cards first. It's a simple card but seemed worth trying. The extra cards give you more of a chance for {{Card|Remodel}} to hit what you want, you know. Anyway +2 Cards is a huge bonus to add to {{Card|Remodel}}.
  
−
- There was a {{Card|Workshop}} variant that gained you a card costing up to {{Cost|3}} plus the number of {{Card|Copper}}s you discarded. It seemed innocent and kind of cute. It's fun to gain more expensive cards with your {{Card|Workshop}}, and if you pull off gaining a {{Card|Province}} with it, good for you. Well. {{Card|Workshop}} is like +{{Cost|4}} +1 Buy, except you can't combine that with your other money. That hurts it a lot. This card could be combined with your other money, but only with {{Card|Copper}}. Well with card-drawing you can base your economy on {{Card|Copper}}. You draw cards, discard a bunch of {{Card|Copper}} to this, gain a {{Card|Gold}} or {{Card|Province}}... then draw more cards and get those {{Card|Copper}}s back, plus that {{Card|Gold}} if any, and spend your money a second time. It seemed like it might not usually be overpowered, but it also seemed overpowered too often when the set was played by itself, and at the time it was looking like it would be a standalone.
+
- There was a {{Card|Workshop}} variant that gained you a card costing up to $3 plus the number of {{Card|Copper}}s you discarded. It seemed innocent and kind of cute. It's fun to gain more expensive cards with your {{Card|Workshop}}, and if you pull off gaining a {{Card|Province}} with it, good for you. Well. {{Card|Workshop}} is like +$4 +1 Buy, except you can't combine that with your other money. That hurts it a lot. This card could be combined with your other money, but only with {{Card|Copper}}. Well with card-drawing you can base your economy on {{Card|Copper}}. You draw cards, discard a bunch of {{Card|Copper}} to this, gain a {{Card|Gold}} or {{Card|Province}}... then draw more cards and get those {{Card|Copper}}s back, plus that {{Card|Gold}} if any, and spend your money a second time. It seemed like it might not usually be overpowered, but it also seemed overpowered too often when the set was played by itself, and at the time it was looking like it would be a standalone.
  
−
- Where's the when-gain {{Card|Chapel}}? I hear you asking. Right here dude. There was an {{Card|Explorer}} (gain Silver to hand) that let you trash any number of cards from hand when you gained it, gaining that many {{Card|Silver}}s, yes that was crazy. There was a {{Card|Mandarin}} (the top half) that {{Card|Chapel}}'d when you gained it; there was a {{Card|Mandarin}} that trashed up to 2 cards when you gained it. There was +{{Cost|2}}, put any number of cards from your hand on your deck, when gain trash up to 2 cards. {{Card|Oracle}} also had a when-gain trashing ability once. It was a tough ability to balance; trashing cards is so good that you would tend to buy the card for its when-gain and then randomly have whatever it was in your deck. Anyway none of these cards worked out.
+
- Where's the when-gain {{Card|Chapel}}? I hear you asking. Right here dude. There was an {{Card|Explorer}} (gain Silver to hand) that let you trash any number of cards from hand when you gained it, gaining that many {{Card|Silver}}s, yes that was crazy. There was a {{Card|Mandarin}} (the top half) that {{Card|Chapel}}'d when you gained it; there was a {{Card|Mandarin}} that trashed up to 2 cards when you gained it. There was +$2, put any number of cards from your hand on your deck, when gain trash up to 2 cards. {{Card|Oracle}} also had a when-gain trashing ability once. It was a tough ability to balance; trashing cards is so good that you would tend to buy the card for its when-gain and then randomly have whatever it was in your deck. Anyway none of these cards worked out.
  
 
- I tried several cards that had a when-gain ability that {{Card|Navigator}}'d everybody - look at their top 5 and either make them discard them or make them put them back. They had problems on early turns and late turns.
 
- I tried several cards that had a when-gain ability that {{Card|Navigator}}'d everybody - look at their top 5 and either make them discard them or make them put them back. They had problems on early turns and late turns.
  
−
- There was a card that gained you a {{Card|Silver}} per card the previous player gained. That may sound weak, and well it cost {{Cost|2}}, but I have seen it gain a pile of {{Card|Silver}}s. One trick is, it adds up if it keeps getting played - I play it for one {{Card|Silver}} and buy a card, you play it for two {{Card|Silver}}s and buy a card, I play it for three {{Card|Silver}}s. I thought the card was okay, but the set at the time had too much {{Card|Silver}}-gaining. People thought it was a theme. Some of that stuff had to go, and this was an easy one to drop.
+
- There was a card that gained you a {{Card|Silver}} per card the previous player gained. That may sound weak, and well it cost $2, but I have seen it gain a pile of {{Card|Silver}}s. One trick is, it adds up if it keeps getting played - I play it for one {{Card|Silver}} and buy a card, you play it for two {{Card|Silver}}s and buy a card, I play it for three {{Card|Silver}}s. I thought the card was okay, but the set at the time had too much {{Card|Silver}}-gaining. People thought it was a theme. Some of that stuff had to go, and this was an easy one to drop.
  
−
- Another card was +{{Cost|2}}, get the {{Card|Ironworks}} bonus for cards the previous player gained. You know, if they gained an Action you get +1 Action, etc. It just didn't thrill anybody.
+
- Another card was +$2, get the {{Card|Ironworks}} bonus for cards the previous player gained. You know, if they gained an Action you get +1 Action, etc. It just didn't thrill anybody.
  
−
- There was a late card that was a one-shot double {{Card|Workshop}} with a when-gain {{Card|Chancellor}} ability. I liked it. For most people it just seemed okay though, not a hit, and as it happens this was not a great set for the card. Where are all the {{Cost|4}}'s you want a million of? Yes there's {{Card|Silk Road}}. I would have just pushed this into another set, to further consider its merits there, but there are only two more sets and neither one could fit this. If there ever turns out to be a 9th expansion, just forget you read this.
+
- There was a late card that was a one-shot double {{Card|Workshop}} with a when-gain {{Card|Chancellor}} ability. I liked it. For most people it just seemed okay though, not a hit, and as it happens this was not a great set for the card. Where are all the $4's you want a million of? Yes there's {{Card|Silk Road}}. I would have just pushed this into another set, to further consider its merits there, but there are only two more sets and neither one could fit this. If there ever turns out to be a 9th expansion, just forget you read this.
  
 
- There was a card that was +1 Card +1 Action, while in play when you draw a card, first reveal your top card and you may discard it if it's a victory card. It was too slow and confusing.
 
- There was a card that was +1 Card +1 Action, while in play when you draw a card, first reveal your top card and you may discard it if it's a victory card. It was too slow and confusing.
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- A couple card-drawing cards had the penalty of when-gain, each other player may trash a card from his hand. These cards barely got tested, didn't excite people, and then I used a version of that penalty on {{Card|Bishop}}.
 
- A couple card-drawing cards had the penalty of when-gain, each other player may trash a card from his hand. These cards barely got tested, didn't excite people, and then I used a version of that penalty on {{Card|Bishop}}.
  
−
- {{Card|Farming Village}} started here for {{Cost|2}} with only +1 Action.
+
- {{Card|Farming Village}} started here for $2 with only +1 Action.
  
 
- It's only fitting that {{Card|Masquerade}} got passed around from expansion to expansion. It was in Prosperity, it was in the original 4th expansion, and it was here once too. {{Card|Mountebank}} was also briefly here, when it was missing from Prosperity.
 
- It's only fitting that {{Card|Masquerade}} got passed around from expansion to expansion. It was in Prosperity, it was in the original 4th expansion, and it was here once too. {{Card|Mountebank}} was also briefly here, when it was missing from Prosperity.
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|Source=[http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3179.msg56362#msg56362 What Donald X. Might Do With a Dominion Time Machine]
 
|Source=[http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3179.msg56362#msg56362 What Donald X. Might Do With a Dominion Time Machine]
 
}}
 
}}
 +
 +
 
=== When-gain vs When-buy ===
 
=== When-gain vs When-buy ===
 
{{Quote|
 
{{Quote|
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|Source=[http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18266.msg747319#msg747319 Inheritance and Nomad Camp]
 
|Source=[http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18266.msg747319#msg747319 Inheritance and Nomad Camp]
 
}}
 
}}
−
=== Donald X.'s homemade updates ===
+
 
 +
 
 +
=== DonaldX's homemade updates ===
 
{{Quote|
 
{{Quote|
 
|Text=
 
|Text=
−
Here is some portion of my opinion on 8 other Hinterlands cards. I got sick of leaving some cards in the box whenever I played with the set, and proxied up changes for my personal version. I don't see how to publish these - we don't want to make people who already have Hinterlands buy an update pack to get things like "{{Card|Fool's Gold}} without the reaction." And we'd have to have an update pack and well it's a problem. I could replace cards with new cards (that update pack is a reasonable product); I can't just tweak cards. But, I am sharing these card texts with you anyway...
+
Here is some portion of my opinion on 8 other Hinterlands cards. I got sick of leaving some cards in the box whenever I played with the set, and proxied up changes for my personal version. I don't see how to publish these - we don't want to make people who already have Hinterlands buy an update pack to get things like "Fool's Gold without the reaction." And we'd have to have an update pack and well it's a problem. I could replace cards with new cards (that update pack is a reasonable product); I can't just tweak cards. But, I am sharing these card texts with you anyway...
−
 
+
−
{{Card|Apprentice}}: Action, {{Cost|5}} [Replacing {{Card|Oracle}}; originally from hinterlands, published in Alchemy]
+
  
 +
Apprentice: Action, $5 [Replacing Oracle; originally from hinterlands, published in Alchemy]
 
+1 Action
 
+1 Action
−
 
+
Trash a card from your hand. +1 Card per $1 it costs.
−
Trash a card from your hand. +1 Card per {{Cost|1}} it costs.
+
----------
−
 
+
Cache: Treasure, $5, worth $3
−
{{Card|Cache}}: Treasure, {{Cost|5}}, worth {{Cost|3}}
+
$3 [big coin]
−
 
+
−
{{Cost|3}} [big coin]
+
−
 
+
 
+1 Buy
 
+1 Buy
 +
When you gain this, gain 2 Coppers.
 
----------
 
----------
−
 
+
Duchess: Action, $2
−
When you gain this, gain 2 {{Card|Copper}}s.
+
+$2
−
 
+
−
{{Card|Duchess}}: Action, {{Cost|2}}
+
−
 
+
−
+{{Cost|2}}
+
−
 
+
 
Look at the top card of your deck; you may discard it.
 
Look at the top card of your deck; you may discard it.
−
 
+
In games using this, when you gain a Duchy, you may gain a Duchess.
 
----------
 
----------
−
 
+
Fool's Gold: Treasure - Reaction, $2, worth $?
−
In games using this, when you gain a {{Card|Duchy}}, you may gain a Duchess.
+
If this is the first time you played a Fool's Gold this turn, +$1, otherwise +$4.
−
 
+
−
{{Card|Fool's Gold}}: Treasure - Reaction, {{Cost|2}}, worth {{Cost|?}}
+
−
 
+
−
If this is the first time you played a Fool's Gold this turn, +{{Cost|1}}, otherwise +{{Cost|4}}.
+
−
 
+
−
{{Card|Ill-Gotten Gains}}: Treasure, {{Cost|6}}, worth {{Cost|2}}
+
−
 
+
−
{{Cost|2}} [big coin]
+
−
 
+
 
----------
 
----------
−
 
+
Ill-Gotten Gains: Treasure, $6, worth $2
−
When you gain this, each other player gains a {{Card|Curse}}.
+
$2 [big coin]
−
 
+
When you gain this, each other player gains a Curse.
−
{{Card|Mandarin}}: Action, {{Cost|2}}
+
----------
−
 
+
Mandarin: Action, $2
−
+{{Cost|3}}
+
+$3
−
 
+
 
Put a card from your hand onto your deck.
 
Put a card from your hand onto your deck.
−
 
+
When you gain this, put all Treasures you have in play on top of your deck in any order.
 
----------
 
----------
−
 
+
Margrave: Action - Attack, $5
−
When you gain this, put all Treasures you have in play on top of your deck in any order.
+
−
 
+
−
{{Card|Margrave}}: Action - Attack, {{Cost|5}}
+
−
 
+
 
+3 Cards
 
+3 Cards
−
 
 
Each other player draws a card, then discards down to 3 cards in hand.
 
Each other player draws a card, then discards down to 3 cards in hand.
−
 
−
{{Card|Noble Brigand}}: Action - Attack, {{Cost|4}}
 
−
 
−
+{{Cost|2}}
 
−
 
−
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed non-{{Card|Copper}} Treasure that you gain, and discards the rest. If they didn't reveal a Treasure, they gain a {{Card|Copper}}.
 
−
 
 
----------
 
----------
 +
Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
 +
+$2
 +
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed non-Copper Treasure that you gain, and discards the rest. If they didn't reveal a Treasure, they gain a Copper.
  
 
When you buy this, do its attack.
 
When you buy this, do its attack.

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