| Latest revision |
Your text |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
| | [[Image:Thief.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[Thief]], a removed card.]] | | [[Image:Thief.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[Thief]], a removed card.]] |
| | | | |
| − | Several cards that were published in the first editions of the earliest sets in Dominion were '''removed''' from those sets, and replaced by new cards, when their [[second edition]]s were released. Cards chosen for removal were chiefly those that turned out to be underpowered or rarely useful in gameplay, as well as a few overpowered cards that tended to dominate games they were in. | + | Several cards that were published in the first editions of [[base|Dominion]] and [[Intrigue]] were '''removed''' from those sets, and replaced by new cards, when their second editions were released. Cards chosen for removal were chiefly those that turned out to be underpowered or rarely useful in gameplay. |
| − | | + | |
| − | == History ==
| + | |
| − | When the first editions of [[base|Dominion]] and [[Intrigue]] were released, not much was known about the relative strengths and weaknesses of each card - playtesting with a select group of people can only get game designers so far. Early on, Dominion was often criticized for having too many relatively useless Action cards; some people even went so far as to call Dominion a 'solved' game in which the key to victory is just buying [[Treasure]] (see also [[Silver test]]). Over the years, after the release of many expansions, Dominion became more balanced, very weak Action cards became more uncommon, and [[engine]]s got more and more opportunities to shine. Nevertheless, some of the early cards still remained notorious for being laughably weak for their cost, with especially {{Card|Scout}} and to a lesser extent {{Card|Chancellor}} and {{Card|Adventurer}} often being ridiculed for being useless.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Already back in 2012, Dominion designer [[Donald X.]] elaborated on the things he would do differently if he had a [http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3179.msg56362#msg56362 'Dominion time machine']. However, it took quite some time before actual steps were taken to update the early sets.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | On September 21, 2016, Jay Tummelson posted a [http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1641948/dominion-and-intrigue-second-editions message] on the BoardGameGeek forums that Dominion was getting a 'face lift', meaning that the original Base set as well as Intrigue got second editions that would replace the original first editions. The most notable of these changes was the fact that each set had 6 Kingdom cards as well as the blank cards removed, and replaced with 7 completely new Kingdom cards. A few days later, the new rulebook revealed which cards were going to be deleted (see below).
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | In early 2022, second editions of [[Seaside]], [[Prosperity]] and [[Hinterlands]] were announced back-to-back, with each releasing with 9 new cards to replace removed ones.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | == Reception ==
| + | |
| − | Overall, most people were content with the upgrades, praising the removal of weak cards and the addition of a handful of exciting new cards. The only controversy came from the removal of {{Card|Coppersmith}} from the second edition of Intrigue, which many frequent forum members were unhappy about. Coppersmith, while not a power card, was probably the strongest of the removed cards, and a fairly unique one as well. It was argued that Coppersmith was mainly removed because it tends to be a trap card for newer players; while occasionally useful as [[payload]] in an [[engine]], it is typically a card newer players buy early on in the game, only to regret it a few turns later. A [http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16319.0 poll] on the Dominion Strategy forums revealed that a little under 40% of forum members would miss Coppersmith the most out of the removed cards.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| | == List of Removed cards == | | == List of Removed cards == |
| | === [[Dominion (base set)|Dominion]] === | | === [[Dominion (base set)|Dominion]] === |
| − | {{Cost|3}} {{Card|Chancellor}}, {{Card|Woodcutter}} <br/>{{Cost|4}} {{Card|Feast}}, {{Card|Spy}}, {{Card|Thief}} <br/>{{Cost|6}} {{Card|Adventurer}} | + | {{Cost|3}} {{Card|Chancellor}}, {{Card|Woodcutter}} <br/>{{Cost|4}} {{card|Feast}}, {{Card|Spy}}, {{Card|Thief}} <br/>{{Cost|6}} {{Card|Adventurer}} |
| | === [[Intrigue]] === | | === [[Intrigue]] === |
| | {{Cost|2}} {{Card|Secret Chamber}} | | {{Cost|2}} {{Card|Secret Chamber}} |
| Line 23: |
Line 10: |
| | <br>{{Cost|4}} {{Card|Coppersmith}}, {{Card|Scout}} | | <br>{{Cost|4}} {{Card|Coppersmith}}, {{Card|Scout}} |
| | <br>{{cost|5}} {{Card|Saboteur}}, {{Card|Tribute}} | | <br>{{cost|5}} {{Card|Saboteur}}, {{Card|Tribute}} |
| − | <br>{{cost|6}} {{Card|Harem}}
| |
| − |
| |
| − | === [[Seaside]] ===
| |
| − | {{Cost|2}} {{Card|Embargo}}, {{Card|Pearl Diver}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|3}} {{Card|Ambassador}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|4}} {{Card|Navigator}}, {{Card|Pirate Ship}}, {{Card|Sea Hag}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|5}} {{Card|Explorer}}, {{Card|Ghost Ship}}
| |
| − |
| |
| − | === [[Prosperity]] ===
| |
| − | {{Cost|3}} {{Card|Loan}}, {{Card|Trade Route}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|4}} {{Card|Talisman}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|5}} {{Card|Contraband}}, {{Card|Counting House}}, {{Card|Mountebank}}, {{Card|Royal Seal}}, {{Card|Venture}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|6}} {{Card|Goons}}
| |
| − |
| |
| − | === [[Hinterlands]] ===
| |
| − | {{Cost|2}} {{Card|Duchess}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|3}} {{Card|Oracle}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|4}} {{Card|Noble Brigand}}, {{Card|Nomad Camp}}, {{Card|Silk Road}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|5}} {{Card|Cache}}, {{Card|Embassy}}, {{Card|Ill-Gotten Gains}}, {{Card|Mandarin}}
| |
| − |
| |
| − | === [[Cornucopia]] ===
| |
| − | {{Cost|0*}} {{Card|Bag of Gold}}, {{Card|Diadem}}, {{Card|Followers}}, {{Card|Princess}}, {{Card|Trusty Steed}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|3}} {{Card|Fortune Teller}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|4}} {{Card|Farming Village}}, {{Card|Horse Traders}}, {{Card|Tournament}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|5}} {{Card|Harvest}}
| |
| − |
| |
| − | === [[Guilds]] ===
| |
| − |
| |
| − | {{Cost|3+}} {{Card|Doctor}}, {{Card|Masterpiece}}
| |
| − | <br>{{Cost|4}} {{Card|Taxman}}
| |
| − |
| |
| − | == Card Gallery ==
| |
| − | Refer to [[Update Packs]]' galleries.
| |
| − |
| |
| − | == Trivia ==
| |
| − | ===Other cards Donald X. considered removing===
| |
| − | {{Quote
| |
| − | |Text=
| |
| − | {{Card|Swindler}} was not close to the chopping block. Closer cards included:
| |
| − | - {{Card|Harem}}. It's called Harem. It would have left but it shows a real person.
| |
| − |
| |
| − | - {{Card|Baron}}. It's not so fun to think the move is to open with it and then draw it with no {{Card|Estate|Estates}}.
| |
| − |
| |
| − | - {{Card|Trading Post}}. I don't like how it's good turn one and sucks if you get it later.
| |
| − |
| |
| − | - {{Card|Minion}}. More hated than {{Card|Swindler}}.
| |
| − |
| |
| − | - {{Card|Mining Village}}. It should trigger e.g. at start of buy phase, both for tracking and to save time considering it. But I couldn't just change that and call it Mining Village.
| |
| − |
| |
| − | The last card to go was {{Card|Coppersmith}}. Some people miss it. Possibly {{Card|Baron}} or {{Card|Trading Post}} would have been a better call.
| |
| − | |Name=[[Donald X. Vaccarino]]
| |
| − | |Source=[http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5799.msg779892#msg779892 Interview with Donald X.]
| |
| − | }}
| |
| − | {{Quote
| |
| − | |Text=
| |
| − | If I were doing it over again, I'm sure I'd find more good things to fix for those two sets. {{Card|Torturer}} isn't what comes to my mind right away though for Intrigue. {{Card|Trading Post}} is strong turn one and weak after that. {{Card|Mining Village}} has poor timing / tracking, it would be better e.g. to trash it at the start of the Buy phase.
| |
| | | | |
| − | {{Card|Torturer}} is a strong attack, but not in the same league as {{Card|Ghost Ship}} / {{Card|Ambassador}} / {{Card|Mountebank}} in terms of how the game plays out. The idea wasn't to get rid of strong attacks; just, these attacks that mean you never see your deck. In the case of {{Card|Goons}}, it was the combination of the attack and the fun part and costing {{Cost|6}}; there's a new {{Card|Militia}} in {{Set|Allies}}, that concept hasn't died. And I mean {{Card|Sea Witch}} and {{Card|Clerk}} are not weak attacks, as you will find.
| |
| − | |Name=[[Donald X. Vaccarino]]
| |
| − | |Source=[https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/v2py1o/comment/iavd0zw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Dominion Reddit, 2022]
| |
| − | }}
| |
| | {{Navbox Cards}} | | {{Navbox Cards}} |
| − | [[Category:Card topics]]
| |
